ROBERT O’CONNOR
Q What inspired the title Swimming Against The Tide and how does it capture what you wanted to say across the album?
The first time the phrase came to mind was way back in 2018 when I was working multiple jobs at the same time as studying in college — I was studying real estate by day, working as a security officer at a club by night, and selling new homes from an open house on the weekends. I would often, at the end of my night shift, find myself walking in the opposite direction from the corporate office workers who were commuting to their shift, and I thought about how I was going in the opposite direction to the majority. It got me to thinking how that had often been the case for me, given my career choices, ever since 2006 when I began to pursue music, it felt like a constant struggle to make progress, unlike in some industries where if you complete A, B and C you get to D. The industry is unpredictable and it can feel heavy, like you’re always pushing against a resistant force. The full line “been swimming against the tide, I’m doing it for the longest time you know”, is a nod to those years of struggle. It’s a self-acknowledgement of what it has taken for me to get to this point, but also there’s a sense of acknowledgment for the achievement of still being in the race, of not sinking.
Q There’s a real honesty in your lyrics about vulnerability and resilience. Was there a turning point in your life that made you write so openly?
I think the tone of writing has changed a little bit on this album. On my last record, ‘Severance’, the concept was of cutting ties — whether that was people or places or jobs — and there was a sense that, as I sang in one of the songs, my “best had been and gone”. There is more of a positive tone on ‘Swimming Against The Tide’, none more evident than on “Something Strange”, which the title is lifted from. There is a sense of possibility on that song, and a sense of being open to the element of surprise, of recognizing that when you least expect it, things can turn around for the better, for reasons that you may not understand. I think I’ve always written about resilience though. On my debut album ‘Distance’, I wrote songs about struggles in relationships, like the first single “Spend The Night”, which talks about being the strength in a relationship, of talking it out and making it right. On ‘Resistance’, the title track was all about perseverance and having your eyes on the prize, and refusing to take no for an answer — that was my “open letter to the music industry” at the time. Later, on “You Found Me” and “Real Good Fight”, I sang about pushing through dark times to see the light again, so it’s definitely a recurring theme. I always say that I never allow myself to be sad for longer than a day, and it’s rarely even that long, but there are times when I’m exhausted by this industry and I think “this is not working, I need to let it go”, but then the next day, I’ll come up with a new tactic and my determination will return.
Q In Head Turner, you explore the idea of someone who doesn’t realize their own magnetism. Do you see that as a metaphor for your own relationship with fame or attention?
It wasn’t written about that at all, but I can see how it could be perceived that way. I wrote the song around 2012, about stepping into a club and seeing someone who walks through the room and quite literally turns heads, not because of their looks solely, but because they have an “aura” — I do believe certain people have that special something that you can feel the moment they pass you by, it’s like a magnetism, they possess an energy that radiates. That’s why I don’t believe in dating apps, you miss out on all of that energy that only translates in real life. On another level, “Head Turner” is about how it’s not always the most obvious person in the room who is the head turner, how it can be any of us for someone, and also how we ourselves can be the head turner, and not realize it until it’s pointed out to you repeatedly! I think there are people out there who aren’t aware of their own powers, whether it’s through the looks, personality or something else, there are people who are oblivious to their own charms, hence the line, “kinda funny you don’t know, least you never let it show”.
Q Summer Is Waiting feels like a song of hope that comes after struggle. Was it written during a particularly dark period?
“Summer Is Waiting” was the first track that I released from this album, and it was released in isolation from the rest of the campaign, back in summer 2023. Around one month before it was released, I wrote the lyrics in one sitting along with a version of the melody that is pretty close to the finished product. It was inspired by two separate conversations I had with friends who were both feeling “down in the dumps”, one for reasons they knew, and the other for reasons unknown to themselves. The song is my response to them, a sort of passage of reassurance that “everything will be fine in time”. It has a gentleness to it, both lyrically and musically, and it felt like a palate cleanser after the hi-NRG singles from my previous record, which I had wrapped promotion on just four months prior. I wouldn’t say that it was a dark period for me personally, but I could relate to their complaints, hence the line “you know I’ve been feeling it to, so I know how you’re dealing/used to be red now I’m always blue, but I know that I’m healing”. I always find the darker winter months that come after Christmas, particularly January, to be more of a struggle, and that’s why the song centers around the idea that in summer, everything will look better, and the final lines “summer is waiting for you, waiting for you/I’m anticipating, I’ll be waiting there too” are a kind of encouragement to just hold on and know that there’s light on the other side of whatever you’re going through.
Q Across the album, there’s this balance of darkness and optimism. How do you personally keep that balance in your own life?
I think it’s something you have to work on, it doesn’t necessarily come naturally, but perhaps it gets easier with time when you’ve been through difficult times and recovered and felt the lightness of being in the aftermath, when you suddenly realize “I feel really good today”. I don’t know if I would say I’m a pessimist, I think I’m a realist and I am skeptical based on my past experiences, in life and in the music industry, that often I am doing something and really limiting my expectations, for instance I have employed the skills of a number of different companies and individuals in the promotion of this album and its singles, and I know that despite my spend, and despite the initial hard-sell that comes with an abundance of enthusiasm on their part, the chances are I will be disappointed in the outcome if I set my expectations too high. In the past I would always think, if you hire one of the best in the business, let’s say, a publicist with a great reputation, that the results will come — but I now have the knowledge and the evidence that this isn’t the case, so as a result I limit my expectations to protect myself from the sort of disappointment I’ve felt in the past. I’m very good with expectation management with myself, but some friends of mine would suggest that this approach is “manifesting” the result that I achieve, and perhaps that’s true, maybe it would serve me better to be a little delusional, and to demand more, I guess I’ll never know!
Q Something Strange talks about an unexpected transformation through love. Was there a real moment that inspired those lyrics?
I first described “Something Strange” as being “a wave of contentment”, and I stand by that statement. It’s a very light, feel-good anthem that I wrote in a moment of happiness while I was on holiday in Barcelona in the summer of 2023. I was in the pool and I had recently started a new job, which had allowed me to bankroll the recording of a new album, and my relationship was in the midst an upwards swing too — because as all of us who are in long-term relationships know, they’re like a pendulum, swinging back and forth. I often listen to a lot of music in the chillout genre, particularly in the summer months, I was listening to Chicane at the time, and found myself inspired by that particular sound and mood — that kind of beach, effervescent energy. The song definitely came to me as more of a concept and an idea than actual words or melodies initially. I knew the type of song that I wanted to write and I knew how I wanted it to make me feel, as a listener.
Q Love on this album often seems complicated, both saving and challenging you. Do you think that paradox is part of why it fascinates you as a songwriter?
I think love is both complicated and simple, depending on how we react to things, and that’s something I’m learning as I get older. There are things that happen now that previously would have set me off, made me angry, made me react, made me emotional — but now, not always, but most of the time, if something happens or is said that I perceive as being negative, I consider where it has come from and why, and how I can react to it in a way that is kind and understanding. “Hurt people hurt people” is a phrase that comes to mind, and I definitely have a streak in me that wants to help people heal, be the best version of themselves and find contentment. I think if we’re feeling bad within ourselves, we can struggle to receive love, maybe even push it away, and feel that we’re undeserving of love. In society today, we base our self-worth on things like our physical condition — whether that’s “Am I slim enough?” or “am I muscular enough?” — and also on things like financial success, but in doing so we setup this idea that we can only be happy when we’re in our best shape, when we’re being promoted or reaching our goals without any obstacles in our way. I think we set ourselves up to be miserable when we do this, because despite the current hustle culture that says if we’re not getting up at 5am and chasing our goals, we’re failing, we’re not always going to be at our best, and that doesn’t mean we’re not fit to be loved — in fact that’s when we really need it, and that’s the beauty of a long-term relationship, whether romantic or platonic, understanding when someone needs additional love and support, and giving it to them wholeheartedly. So yes, I guess it does fascinate me as a songwriter, and I think it will continue to, because it never stays the same.
Q Hard Rain paints love as something almost destructive yet irresistible. Do you find that pain and beauty often come together in your creative process?
The lyrics to “Hard Rain” were written by a guy called Tee Webb, who is a songwriter, musician, and an artist in his own right. He wrote the track together with my producer Gareth Shortland, who is the sole producer on this record. Considering I didn’t write the track myself, I cannot speak on it fully, but what I will say is that my perception of the song is that it’s about a relationship that is turbulent, and that the protagonist is out of their depth in, and so is considering leaving. Tee is very metaphorical and visual in his lyrical approach, and lines like “Your perfect storm will cover me, it happens every single time” really say a lot without saying much in reality — what I take from a line like that is a vulnerability, and an awareness of the situation based on past experiences in the relationship, that will inform your next moves. I think of the line “only the one that hurts you, can make you feel better / only the one who inflicts the pain, can take it away” from Madonna’s “Erotica”. Sometimes, the most passionate relationships that bring the highest of highs also come with the lowest of lows, and in a way, some personalities are so strong and dominant in a relationship, that they control the whole dynamic and mood.
Q In Everything You Wanted, you question the price of outward success. Do you feel like you’ve had to sacrifice anything important to keep making music your way?
“Everything You Wanted’ is a funny song because I wrote it about numerous situations — from observing influencers who parade their success, which is sometimes not as grand as they would have you believe — to the good old-fashioned tradesmen who literally build their success privately and without fanfare. It celebrates the latter, and the kind of people who put their heads down and get whatever they want in life, whether it’s a wife and kids and a home to call their own, or financial freedom and fame. As a song, it doesn’t take itself too seriously, and that was the aim, there is an element of drama to it, perhaps inspired by all of those big ‘80s pop songs from acts like Hall & Oats, Johnny Hates Jazz and Simple Minds. As far as making sacrifices goes, yes I’ve absolutely without question had to make sacrifices in order to keep making music period, never mind making it on my own terms. It’s an expensive business — from the recording, producing, mixing, mastering, to the photographs, videos, ads and various services needed to do the bare minimum as a serious independent artist. This means working a day job and having side hustles to pay for what is essentially a passion project as well as covering your day-to-day life expenses. I think it’s no different to when I was a child, sacrificing “free time” on the weekend or after school to attend stage school or keyboard lessons — it was never mandatory for me but I felt compelled to complete what I had started and when I was at a loose end, going out on the street and playing with other kids seemed to me to be a lot of the time, not stimulating enough!
Q Mysterious Times reflects on living in a world of illusion. Do you think social media has made it harder for artists to stay authentic?
“Mysterious Times” is one of two cover versions on the album, but it was chosen based on its lyrics and how I felt they were appropriate for the time we’re living in, despite having been written and originally released in the late ‘90s. I think social media has absolutely made it harder for artists to be authentic — I am aware that as artists we are now expected to lift the curtain on our personal lives, revealing more and more of ourselves, which in theory should mean that we’re more authentic, but for me personally, we have lost a lot of the magic and the mystery of artists in the ‘90s and before social media existed — we don’t necessarily need to know everything about the bands and singers we love — and we’re not always gonna love what we discover. There’s a lot of people out there who project the “be kind” mantra, until they discover the pop star they adore is on an opposing political persuasion, and then they will do a complete 180 turn and try to bury them using the powers of social media. We saw it with the Irish singer, she expressed her thoughts on a sensitive subject in a brief comment using her own personal Facebook page, and it was exposed and used against her, escalating to a ridiculous degree that at one point I thought may kill her career — but she refused to backtrack and comment any further, and that for me is an example of someone remaining authentic, and I find that particularly admirable in an era when everyone seems to be one comment away from a national apology tour.
Q In Trick Of The Night, you explore the darker side of nightlife. Did your own experiences in those spaces shape that song?
The topic of “Trick Of The Night” really appealed to me as a listener when I heard Bananarama perform the original version of the song at their show at the London Palladium last year. I was immediately drawn to the atmosphere and mood of the song even before I knew that it’s essentially about someone who’s considering becoming a rent-boy, after moving to another city in search of their fortune and falling short of their goals. In a way, it’s less scandalous of a topic these days, considering how many people turn to OnlyFans as a way of making big bucks. I won’t say it’s widely accepted socially, but it’s certainly less shocking than it would have been when the song was first released in the ‘80s. Perhaps my own experiences contributed to me being drawn to the topic of the song — I think in a way we’re all selling ourselves in some way or another, whether that’s our bodies, our minds or our time — in exchange for payment. I like the line “Everywhere you go, it’s the long way”, it feels true of the music industry and of my experiences with it — there have been no shortcuts to success and it’s a long road, often with long stretches without slip-roads, and turning back is not an option!
Q Once In A While and Love Remains both accept heartbreak without bitterness. Was it difficult to get to that emotionally mature place?
Both “Once In A While” and “Love Remains” are the only two tracks that feel to me to be cut from the same cloth as the songs from my last record, ‘Severance’. “Love Remains” was the first song I wrote specifically for this album, and I was coming off the back of “One Way Ticket” becoming my most successful single to date, so I was very much in the headspace of “the fans want hi-NRG electropop”. I won’t say that I was trying to replicate that success, because “One Way Ticket” was quite a once-off magic moment for me in terms of the songwriting process, but I was definitely conscious that a certain type of song was resonating with my listeners — and helping me to grow my niche following, which I was keen to continue to do. With “Once In A While”, I received the demo for this track from the producer Sakgra, who has a very distinctive style inspired by Italo Disco, and it was co-written by Gordon Pogoda, who I had previously heard of after he wrote a track for Steps on their comeback album ‘Tears On The Dance Floor’. They feel, at least to me as the artist, to be different to the rest of the tracks on the album, in the sense that they came at the beginning of the process before I discovered where I wanted to go creatively with this project. I would say in a way they are songs “for the fans” of my previous record, and that they carry a similar bittersweet sentiment. “Love Remains” is about taking a trip to escape the reminders that your relationship is over — being in a strange city around new experiences can distract you, for a time, and as I say in the song “then I remember that we’re still through”. With “Once In A While”, I was initially uncertain about the lyrics, as I felt it wasn’t necessarily conveying a feeling that I had been familiar with in recent times, so I questioned was it an authentic move, but I was keen to include tracks by other songwriters to deliver a more versatile offering with this album, and the listeners have streamed it 20,000 times now despite it not being a single and receiving no promotion whatsoever, so to me that says, it’s been well received, and as such, it has done it’s job!
Q You often write about nostalgia, not just missing someone but missing who you were with them. Do you see nostalgia as a creative strength or a trap?
I think nostalgia gets stronger as we progress through our 30s, and perhaps as the world changes at what feels to me to be a more rapid rate. We long for the comforts of our past, for people who we no longer see — whether it’s because they have passed away or moved away — and it can be such an overwhelming feeling that comes over us often without warning. It’s interesting that you say it’s about missing who you were with them, because I do believe that different friends bring out different elements of ourselves. I have friends from college who, if I haven’t seen them for some time, I will long for the kind of mood that only they can put me in — the conversations we will have that you can only have with people who know you a long time, that know who you were before you became the version of yourself that you are today. In a way, I feel like I’ve lived so many chapters already, and while a job won’t change who you are at your core, it can change your day-to-day situation and who you are in that universe. I think nostalgia is a creative strength as long as you don’t fall into a trap of overdoing it and becoming pastiche or a caricature of the era you’re referencing. It’s the same with self-referencing, there are a couple of lines on this album that refer back to songs on my first record, but it’s subtle, and it happened naturally. Numerous reviews of my new single “What A Time To Be Alive” have mentioned how I balance nostalgia with a modern approach in terms of production, and I think the reason it works is because while I am bringing references from the ‘80s and ’90s to the table, there are also current references, and my own perspective, it’s not a costume that I’m putting on.
Q What A Time To Be Alive ends the album on a note of longing for deeper connection. Do you think real connection is getting harder to find today?
I knew from the outset that “What A Time To Be Alive” would be the closing track on the album, and on the companion album, ‘Night Tides: The Chillout Collection’, it’s also the closing track, because it feels so conclusive in every way, and for me, when I’m recording an album and deciding upon the track list, I definitely consider “if this was the final album I released, would it feel like a conclusive journey?” I think I feel that way because as an independent artist it is such a monumental undertaking financially and in terms of time, to release an album without any support. As for thew song itself, “What A Time To Be Alive” is about feeling disconnected, regretful, nostalgic — it’s a very emotional song even though it sounds light-hearted melodically. I think real connection is more difficult to find than ever — we are constantly connected, but often not to the people in the room with us, hence the line “remember when you were in the room and so was I”. I think that’s a really important line, and it’s something I think about often. If I’m next to the most important person in my life, even if we’re just watching TV together, and I have my laptop open and I’m also scrolling aimlessly on my phone, how connected am I, and how much quality time am I losing? We are everywhere, and we are nowhere, and we are the only ones that can put a stop to these habits. People are becoming more impatient, they want instant gratification — fast food, fast fashion, fast love — but do you remember when you had to wait until the record shop opened on Monday morning to buy an album from your favorite band, and you had only heard one single from it in advance on MTV, that hit different. I think we can still find deeper connection with the right people, who are tuned into a higher frequency, emotionally and spiritually, who are willing to work on it, and who are not distracted by every potential dopamine hit in their path.
Q Do you see Swimming Against The Tide as a concept album, or did the thematic unity emerge naturally?
I don’t see it as a concept album in the way that I saw my last record ‘Severance’ as one. That had a theme in a sense, and felt quite focused. One of the first things I said while I was recording this album was that this project was like a “pop pic’n’mix”, it has a little bit of everything — there’s ‘80s sophistipop, which was just a genre I discovered during the recording process and became enamored with, there’s a dash of ‘90s dance with my cover of “Mysterious Times” and with the PWL sound of “Love Remains”, there’s nu-disco and chillout with “Head Turner” and “Something Strange”, and there’s a ballad in the form of a Bananarama cover. To me I wanted to make a perfectly balanced pop album, and while there were limitations, restrictions and things I would do differently if I had more time or more money, I am very satisfied with it as a body of work, and six months out, I appreciate it even more now than when it was first released.
Q What was the hardest song on this album to finish and why?
“Something Strange”, I reckon. I had the idea, I had the feeling, I had the inspiration, but for some reason I struggled with the words initially, which doesn’t normally happen for me, usually that’s the first thing to come. I remember going to the gym in the hotel I was staying at in Barcelona, and I had a melody on repeat in my mind, and eventually the chorus lyrics came. They are simple, but I think they hit the spot. When I returned home from holiday, I forgot about the idea, and continued to record the album. I believe we had ten tracks chosen, and I had an idea of what the track list would be. Somewhere along the line, I became plagued by a feeling that there was something missing, a song that would elevate the whole record and act as a centre-piece. Previously I had felt that “Everything You Wanted” was that song, but having released it as a single, I think I had an urge to create something else that would really excite the fans equally, but in a different way, when they eventually got to hear the album. Gareth, my sole producer on the album, sent me several demos and backing tracks to write to, but nothing was clicking, until eventually I lost my patience, sat down at my kitchen table and frantically looked through my phone for previous ideas. I found the chorus that I had written while on holiday, and in one very brief sitting, wrote the two verses, sending them to Gareth in a voice note immediately. His reaction was so positive, more so than with any other song idea I had presented to him, and when I played the idea for Jordan Arteaga, who produced my chillout album, he had the exact same reaction. At that point I knew we had “the song”, and I lifted the title of the album from the first verse. I wanted to bring my best possible performance to the recording, so I approached Richey McCourt, who I had recorded my vocals for ‘Severance’ with, and reunited with him to record “Something Strange” along with “Love Remains” and “Trick Of The Night”. I was elated with the outcome of that song, I only wish that I had kept it back a little longer to release it as a summer — I think seasonally it felt a little out of sync with its October release date, especially considering the album wasn’t released immediately off the back of it.
Q Looking back, is there a lyric on this album you’re especially proud of?
I love the high-drama and slightly ridiculous quality to “Everything You Wanted”, like the line “Got the money, the fame, and you got a lover!”, which I wrote at 5am in a semiconscious state. It’s not about the words as such, but the delivery and the element of fun, which I don’t think my music has possessed in the past particularly. On a more serious note, I think the lyrics to “What A Time To Be Alive” are quite powerful in terms of being a social commentary of sorts, but they also look inward. For instance, the line “Social media isn’t what it seems, it’s coming between me and my dreams”, is somewhat ambiguous, but I think will also resonate with listeners, because we’re all learning to live in a world where social media is evolving rapidly and is in a sense, a world within a world, a virtual companion to our actual reality.
Q Were there any songs that didn’t make the final tracklist because they didn’t fit thematically?
There were two at least. Unlike major label artists, who tend to record much more material than they actually need for an album, I record only what I need, due to the cost of the process. As a result, it means the pre-production process is longer than the recording of the songs themselves. I wanted to drip-feed singles while I recorded the album, to keep the fans fed, and to appease the Spotify algorithm and keep my name out there, but I also wanted them to come together as a whole and feel cohesive. I also knew that it would be a 10-track album, and so when “Something Strange” came along, we lost a track called “Freeway”, which I wrote back in 2021 around the time I wrote “Been & Gone”. I remember Gavin Sheridan, my guitarist at the time, saying “Been & Gone sounds like the B-side, and Freeway sounds like the single”, and yet the latter remains unreleased, so it’s funny how these things go. The reason that was chosen as the track to be cut was because it was written with a heavy country influence originally, which didn’t fit the concept of the album, so I retooled it to fit a pre-existing backing track that Gareth gave to me, which we eventually decided didn’t sound as strong as the original idea. We then tried to redevelop it a techno-country track, and while it was incredibly catchy, it felt a little too gimmicky and hit-chasing to me when I slept on the idea. There was a second track called “The Other Side”, which had some risqué lyrics and was a bit darker than the rest of the album, inspired in part by George Michael ballads like “Spinning The Wheel”. I wouldn’t be surprised if these tracks find a home in the future in some form, the same way that “Head Turner” ended up leading this album despite being in existence as an idea since 2012!
Q How do you hope listeners feel after hearing the album all the way through?
I hope they feel compelled to go back to the start and listen again! It’s a compact record, but I think it has great variety and I hope there is something for all of my listeners to love on there. I hope for fans who have been with me from before this album, that they feel the progression in my songwriting, but also feel I have been true to the artist they came to enjoy in the first place. For new listeners, I hope it excites them that there is a solo male artist making high quality electronic pop music in 2025. Hopefully it makes them hungry for more, whether that means digging into my back catalogue and discovered past eras, or waiting with bated breath for what could potentially come next. I have received emails and DMs from fans about the album that have really made me feel so validated, that what I am doing is completely worthwhile. That inspires me to keep going, and to keep surprising the listeners, and myself!
Q Which track do you feel reveals the most about who you really are?
I think every track reveals something of who I am, because like everyone, I have multiple shades — and whether it’s a self-written song, one that has been written for me, or a cover version, all 10 of these songs are on the album for a reason and have been carefully considered. I would have to say “Something Strange” is the song that feels like the jewel in the crown on the album, it was the song I held out for, much like “One Way Ticket” was on my previous album. It feels like it distills all of my influences into a particular blend that feels all at once modern and nostalgic, and lyrically it carries that wistful feeling that I think has become somewhat of a hallmark of my songwriting. It reveals that I am steadfast — determined, resilient, hopeful, and honest. Someone recently said that the album felt like opening someone else’s diary and finding your own story between the lines, and I think that is the ultimate goal as a songwriter.
Q If someone could only listen to one song from Swimming Against The Tide, which would you choose to represent the album—and why?
I would probably say the listeners have already chosen — “Everything You Wanted” is the most popular song on the album by some distance, and while there are others that I like equally, I understand the choice from a listeners perspective — it’s upbeat, energetic and makes me smile whenever I hear it. I also think that it represents the moment that I found my groove with the songwriting and stylistic approach for this album, and I have seen when you strip all the production away from the track and rebuild it, as we have done on ‘Night Tides’, where it appears as Sadé-inspired lounge ballad, it works equally well. I imagine how it will sound in a live setting, and I think that it will be electrifying.
